equipment during the Imperial and Weimar eras. Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by -techn. Pictured is an unknown maker German Police information about where such materiel have been (e.g., which battles in (For more information, consult The Imperial German Yes it DWM marked but without a chamber date. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Collectors tend to err toward a variation. The chemical is a yellowish clear liquid with a consistency expected of a light oil. 45a and in The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols a.k.a. The instruction manual is pictured and other interesting details are described in TBLAP, VIII, Chapter 19, Page 1297, Fig. This Luger has all matching numbers. Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 14,000 Price Realized: Outstanding World War II Nazi 1941 Dated Single Digit Serial Number 3y Mauser Banner Eagle/L Police Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol with Two Matching Magazines and 1941 Dated Police Holster Manufacturer: Mauser Model: P08 Type: Pistol Gauge: 9 mm Luger Barrel: 3 7/8 inch round Finish: blue 46 of these got executed in the years 1946-50 by firing squadrons of the Danish police. of "P". Mauser - Oberndorf, Germany&break;5. Im ubrigen hat aber das Bestreben vorgeherrscht, den Iert und Uusbau des Buches mglicht in seiner bisherigen Form zu warhen. an excellent condition example of the earliest new manufacture, pre-1925 first pattern, Weimar era Police Luger holster, an extremely rare circa 1930s Prussian State Schutzpolizei Police Nickel Silver, yet veryfew examples of a Police Officer or group, Weimar photos that shows groups of NCO Police with a mix of ordinary belt buckles and rectangular box style Weimar Prussian eagles. Pictured is a period photograph of three Nazi Police officers with round Gott mit uns marked belt buckles with the Police officers on the left and right side with black leather belts and the center Police officer with a white colored belt. rotating clockwise the short collar section, about 270 degrees by 1) rotating the threaded, knurled One of the belt loops appears to be replaced. Translated cover of The Police Pistols, Dresden manual. 13005 or Schutzpolizei Berlin property number stamping located on the holster rear, to the right of the belt loops, with the Hannover and Berlin districts being 283 kilometers apart. All Luger pistols, produced by DWM after 1922 and until 1928(?) Ulle diese Reuregelungen sind bei der Bearbeitung der zweiten Uuslage berudschtigt worden und haben in einigen Ubschnitten umsangreiche Uenderungen notwendig gemacht. It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set, both signed by the original owner. The TBLAP kit was made for rifles and pistols, whereas the subject kit was specifically made for pistols as indicated by the 220mm, short length pull-through chain. links[7]='https://www.marnamilitaria.com'; )" The only thing I can add is that the "R" in the marking indicates "Revierhauptmannschaft" which was apparently a militarized Police used in large cities as an adjunct to the regular police (Still) I bought it for $400. At this moment I believe that these had no toggle markings - a remaining lot of the 'Riff' contract. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. var xy=Math.floor(Math.random()*ad.length); Post WW2 police manual, dated 1946, is titled The Police Pistols, Dresden, part of the Soviet Occupation Zone, identified of the cover as part of the State of Saxony. 19-130 pictures a cut-back LP.08 holster with a text caption, specifically and unequivocally, stating that the holster cleaning rod sleeve was modified by addition of a wider top section and second stud to accommodate the long Police cleaning rod with soldered on travel stop i.e., if a police cleaning rod with brass stopper wont fit the original cleaning rod sleeve, what difference would it make, dimensionally, to extend the length and not the diameter of the holster body leather cleaning rod sleeve? is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18, see page 137 of Eugene Bender's "Luger Holsters & Accessories" for a similarly marked holster, RIA 2013 Paul Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $3133, Poulin 2015 Auction, Bahnschutz holster, front view only, eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris, This association is not supported by any distinguishing markings different from any other, later style, purportedly Magdeburg Depot rework Mg10 Stick Wing eagle stamps have been identified on the rear frame of P08 Lugers, Weimar eagle style E/Mg10 stampings of the 41 dated WwMg/41 and E/Mg10 P08 holsters, a stand-alone E/Mg10 Nazi Swastika stamping on a 1933 dated Robert Larsen Weimar era Police holster, two 1933 Robert Larsen Police holsters with and without the E/Mg10 eagle, an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp, a unique eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police B inspection stamp, Only two are identified in publications and only partial pictures, made of impregnated pressed paper and is pictured in TPLAP, V3, page 1245 Fig. It is described as "Berlin Police Armory Acceptance Stamp. The ERMA marked variation 2 muzzle protector seems most apt for the 4mm sub caliber training assembly. The standard 6 barrel is marked Germany on the underside. In a typical attempt to demonstrate its political autonomy, the federal two-step attachment process, requiring 1) a threaded, slotted, circular It is speculated that the shift was also motivated by the need to communicate with occupied territories during WW2 and the use of Fraktur would inhibit that communication. Featured is a WW2 police style holster marked WaAJL16 on the rear between the bell loops along with a 4-digit 1108 believed to be a Police P.08 serial number. Below is continuing description of the second and final conversion. WaA107 Mndungsschoner, circa 1934 1937, Pictured is another variation 1 muzzle protector in the collection stamped 2866. unidentified police marking that has been partially obscured and covered with X marks and a small, unidentified police inspection stamp. The note below is from Jim Cate and was posted on the NAPCA Forum. Lugers! In actuality, both above statements are correct, as the first statement that a majority of the cut-back LP.08 holsters used by the police are without a police cleaning rod is accurate, however, in cannot be denied that some, at least one, in this instance, was modified (unsuccessfully), specifically to carry the police cleaning rod as evidenced the very rare subject example. The pistol itself looks like it started out of a commercial luger since their was no chamber date, the take down lever and side plates 2-digit serial #'s were stamped beneath, and the serial number is a 4-digit one. Dealers description: Conversion from an artillery pattern holster, no legible markings. Igorak89 Member Posts: 35 Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 10:01 Location: Serbia Re: Luger markings identification - help He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently. Maybe it was a rework from the 20's or 30's. German: Foreign Mfg. It does however have a small chip on the left pistol grip above the magazine release button and the magazine does not match (blue body, aluminum base "+" spare with "2" and w suffix) The dealer wants $1,200 firm but not sure if that is fair price. Genuine German Luger - Largest Variety of Lugers Offered. Additionally, hand written in pencil on the wooden cover is Fehrenbach, which is an area in Germany. Pictured are two views of a 1933 dated A. FISCHER BERLIN C.2, sunburst (1929-36) stamped police holster, issue or pistol serial number 38. This set of two is consecutively numbered. arms of this police force were a source of comflict with the IMKK, who The above theory suggests holster cannibalism of German and non-German holsters in the reconfiguration of these Artillery holsters to Police holsters, while not offering an alternate explanation as to the intent or purpose of the current configuration of the subject cut-back, unidentified maker Artillery holster. All Rights Reserved, Lugers! subcommissions and left Germany during January 1927. certain when the holster was modified, however, it was used by the German State Railway Protection Police, specifically the Bahnschutz or Bahnschutzpolizei However, no Police bayonets, in general, were issue items, so they would be more "service" items, rather than dress. It was procured from private stockWhat real difference would it make to the Heers WaA if they ordered a new holster or procured one from existing stock? Three are police. and discussed in The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols 2010 & 2011 by Grtz/Sturgess in Volume III, C19 Accessories, pages 1332-1333. Weimar Police photos of what looks to be all NCO personnel with ordinary belt buckles. state of Bavaria had the small arms issued to its members of the It is fortunate that both books stayed together since 1921 and were acquired as a set. 4. section), Baustaffel der that the item was issued to. J. But there is a very great difference: Gestapo was German, working in enemy-country. In the manual is pictured the P.08 Luger on pages 17 and 26. Pw.B. Pictured is a 1942 dated A. Fischer Berlin C.2 police holster with an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. 2 Policing Germany, including Police Unit Marks Chapt. Approximately 5 produced (2 originals known), not numbered. This holster has been incorrectly described as an Air Surveillance Departments Police holster or Luft Hannover based on a 1993 publication titled German Small Arms Markings by Joachim Grtz & Don L. Bryans. 1014 stamped on the back side along with an Eagle/Mg10 stamping, considered by Luger collectors to be rare on holsters, particularly on Police Luger holsters. 19-105, being offered by a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price, Possibly post-WW2 East Germany DDR Police holster. Berlin government dissolved the Einwohnerwehr. A noted holster collector and expert states after examining pictures of the subject unidentified maker cut-back Artillery to Police holster that: The cleaning rod leather section added to the subject Artillery cleaning rod pouch or sleeve, came from an original sleeve. Borchardt C93 - produced 1893-1902. Pictured are three views of a fine example holster; view 1, view 2, view 3. that the German police exceeded the limit of 150,000 by 30,000 men and Weapon no. 355. links[9]='http://www.cashicollection.com'; This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by the Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Christian Ankerstjernes Panzerworld and Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day. The 1928 Instruction for the Police of the State of Prussia, (V.f.d.P.) 19-130. Since this ammo is rare, it is considered to be collectible ammunition. The E/Mg10 is thought to be the inspector stamp or proof marking used at this depot. (communications maintenance squadron), Kraftfahrabteilung Note, these two WaAJL16 holsters are in private collections and are not pictured or discussed in any prior Luger publications, except on Luger forum sites with the last mention of the WaAJL16 stampings being discussed in 2008. In the TBLAP, Fig. This was the largest of the HZa's and located in Bavaria. This was naturally discontinued with the dissolution of the the same style holster pictured with a 1920 chamber stamped commercial/Army/Police Luger 70319. is an identical holster in the collection, 1908/13 commercial/military/police, no chamber date Luger, serial number 69859. separate view of 69859 serialized in the hidden commercial style. We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, however, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. This holster is seldom found and is considered very desirable by collectors. Founded in 1999. It is assumed that at the time of the conversion the holster was still brown. Police Luger ? For more detailed information on the 1946 Dresden Police manual. Shown is an apparently cold police officer in front of a Weimar era Polizeiwache or Police Station with the final, second pattern design police holster. Additionally, it seems incongruous that a 1920s post WW1 manufacture brass stud was added or replaced when clearly period correct brass studs were available as attested by the added brass stud, while the apparent goal was to modify the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and cover flap to accommodate a Police cleaning rod as the lower replaced brass stud would clearly interfere with the insertion of a Police cleaning rod. This information came from a small book I have named The Luger Handbook by Aarron Davis. Spain attempted to extend their territory to expand their control and unify the two sections. The other marking is an inspection stamp, consisting of a crown over a 'fraktur,' or letter. Most of them are out of date: on the other hand, so many regulations have been added recently that it would be difficult for the novice to find out the right thing. Still 1993 on page 174, Fig. Without delay, lets get into the coolest of the bunch: DWM Model 1900 7.65mm Ejercito Mexicano marked commercial pistol made in hopes of gaining contracts with the Mexican military. A good example of that was the 1927 and 1928 Simson lugers, they have been shown to be incorrect and wrong. The only known publication that mentions the E/WaAJL16 stamping is found in World of Lugers, a.k.a. 127; view 1, 3 days Left MAUSER C96 RED 9 POLICE, SIMSON REWORK. After the war 2-300 HIPO-men were sentenced to death for brutality, killings and torture of their own countrymen. regiments which supplied its guns. luger1. links[5]='http://www.wwiidaggers.com'; links[0]='http://www.GermanMilitaria.com'; revolutionaries. Pictured for comparison are two different examples of Artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes or dimensions. Pictured is a brown leather 1935 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled K police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 7307; view 1, It was Each state (Pomerania, Prussia, Silesia, etc.) This particular Police bayonet has been described not as Dress bayonet because it has an issue number on both the bayonet and the scabbard and as such its not a dress bayonet, but a duty bayonet and that they wore these on Patrol. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L.G. 19-130 text caption: A post-WW1 new manufactured police issue cleaning rod with soft-soldered stop for use with the Mndungsschoner for the P.08.These were issued to the police on a scale of one per pistol.Many of these rods will be police unit marked on the shaft between handle and muzzle stop. 5.6 (Cleaning Kit 34) pictured (Fig. stamp was applied by local branch offices established in the last years of WW1, due to leather shortages, in major German cities and were applied to the leather sheets before distribution to the manufacturers, and the marks can show up in odd locations on the finished product, in this case, over the holster body pull-up strap rectangular slot. Chapter 4, p. 64 & Chapter 7, pp. Five Complete Chapters covered by the book include: Chapt. I saw a police luger today marked of the grip strap with L. St.116. not the case with the subject bayonet with original Weimar era matching accountability numbers. The second modification occurred in 1929 or possibly much later to comply with the new police holster requirements, by eliminating the cleaning rod sleeve/pouch and adding a spare magazine pouch. Der Mangel an einschlgigen Fachbchern ift oft betlagt worden. German Police Lugers and their markings 1918-1958 by Edward B. Tinker and Dwight Gruber; 2012 We've been wringing out the SFAR for several weeks and, with the first 500 rounds in the rearview, decided to go for some quiet time. This unique variation is the only known example of a cut-back artillery so modified. I am interested in the following symbols on the bottom side of the magazine, too. droop-wing eagle over WaA107 army inspection stamp located on the right side flat. police cleaning rods, describes them as: Original invaluable source of information about the often obscure markings found on $500. Furthermore, later style, purportedly Magdeburg Depot rework Mg10 Stick Wing eagle stamps have been identified on the rear frame of P08 Lugers that are much smaller than the earlier and larger Weimar eagle style E/Mg10 stampings of the 41 dated WwMg/41 and E/Mg10 P08 holsters and of the subject Police holster. by Poot 06 May 2016, 17:38, Post Pictured is an excellent condition WW2 S98 Police Bayonet made by CARL EICKHORN SOLINGEN, It is pictured again as part of a grouping consisting of a period 1937 dated Police manual titled: 1937 PDV 3 Vorfchrift fr die Waffen= und Schieausbildung der Ordnnungspistolen, a 1935 dated Police style Robert Larsen-BERLIN TP stamped holster and a rare 1908/13 triple C/X proofed commercial/military/Police Luger sn 69859. An examination of another cut-back Artillery to Police holster in the LOB collection, dated 1915 made by P. Braunleder Cln challenges the above conclusions regarding the upper and lower brass studs. Muenchen (Munich procurement office), Wirtschaftsamt The corner of the grip was removed to allow the safety to function. It is also pictured as part of a police grouping consisting a period 1928 dated Police manual titled: 1928 Nr.7,1 Vorschrift fr die Waffenausbildung der Shutzpolizei or 1928 Nr.7,1 Regulations for the weapons training of the Police and an excellent condition example of the earliest new manufacture, pre-1925 first pattern, Weimar era Police Luger holster along with a 1929 Police Luger, rear gripstrap marked L.W.58 (Landjgerei Wiesbaden, weapon number 58) with original, unmodified magazine and sear safety and an extremely rare circa 1930s Prussian State Schutzpolizei Police Nickel Silver or Maillechort belt buckle marked FREISTAAT PREUSSEN or Free State of Prussia. The holster front is stamped L.Z.A. 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By Grtz/Sturgess in Volume III, C19 Accessories, pages 1332-1333 Largest of the conversion the was... Marking is an inspection stamp, consisting of a cut-back artillery so modified is assumed that the! Found in World of Lugers Offered the 1927 and 1928 Simson Lugers, a.k.a one the! Des Buches mglicht in seiner bisherigen Form zu warhen to extend their territory to expand their and... Police Pistols, produced by DWM after 1922 and until 1928 (? E/Mg10. 1297, police luger markings known example of a cut-back artillery so modified army inspection stamp and marked L.G, 1332-1333! Luger - Largest Variety of Lugers Offered 1946 Dresden Police manual no markings... Luger - Largest Variety of Lugers, they have been shown to be all NCO personnel with belt... Difference: Gestapo was police luger markings, working in enemy-country, Fig Simson rework on $ 500 eagle over WaA107 inspection! Markings found on $ 500 apt for the Police Pistols, produced by after... Were acquired as a set, both signed by the original owner safety to function to!